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Card processing status and misc update

2011-02-04 05:33:12 (12984 views)

All our stuff is scheduled to arrive at the warehouses shortly after Chinese New Year, or within a couple of weeks from now.

Due to rolling reserve requirements, which would interrupt our supply for 3 months or more, we will not accept credit card payments for our pilot run. Payments will have to be made via an international bank transfer. Some may be unfamiliar with this so just in case you haven't done it before, you just head out to your bank, ask for a "foreign remittance form" and they help you fill it out with information we will provide.

Update: to protect your privacy, both on the remittance form and and in the future on the card statement, we will not be using "DreamLover Laboratories" name in full. So the bank staff and whoever gets a hold of your credit card statement will not know what you're purchasing. On the reason for payment you can write "electronic product".

If you wish to use internet banking to do this, there may be a process to go through before international remittances are allowed from your online panel. Depending on the bank you may need to receive a snail mail letter with a code, other times you just show up at your local branch and request the service to be enabled. This activation could take a few days.

MISC UPDATE

The packaging guys used more than 25% heavier materials for production, this makes the packaging look and feel sturdier and more durable, however the weight was massive when trying to ship, which would have been a problem if there wasn't such thing as weight by volume. In this case the volume is so big it takes over and weight no longer matters. This is probably why most product pouches (such as the one the CB6000 itself is shipped in) are made of thin, light fabric which can be flattened. We didn't consider this volume issue at all - our packaging is similar to what's sometimes used for razors or semi-hard eyeglass cases.

There was some panic as usual due to the unforeseen costs, and we had our local guy make tens of phone calls to freight forwarders, eventually we settled for a method where the merchandise is sent partially by air and partially by sea (don't ask...)

Our shipping cost for the bags ended up being identical to production cost. With air freight, shipping would have cost more than twice as much as the packaging itself.

By going through this mini adventure and having local guys make tens of phone calls we managed to figure out the whole spectrum of shipping options from China, the price breakdowns, possible discounts, weight and volume rules - this is going to be essential knowledge moving forward.

Our product has tens of components so it's not being easy nor cheap to coordinate shipments, some parts come from Japan, some from Canada, some from the UK, some from China. There were a few returned bank transfers and misc trouble along the way, but all's fine now.

We are using this waiting time productively by creating even more boards by hand. We've gotten so good at hand soldering these boards when we reworked our very problematic first assembly batch that now hand soldering them from scratch seems like child's play (though it's still massively time consuming due to the sheer number of components).

We're also gathering course materials from the web and corresponding with a couple of associates regarding our bootstrapping strategy which is really the biggest thing on the radar presently... how big is the chastity market? how many people interested in chastity will also want a male training system? how many units can we set as a target for our next production batch? how many people will purchase at what price? at what point can we automate production instead of running after suppliers 16 hours a day in 3 time zones trying to coordinate everything? do we want/need distributors? do we need to immediately change tooling to make production easier or save money to buy components? and there are a whole range of top secret strategic issues that we need to figure out before launch.

But everything's looking up and as soon as the product's on the shelves we won't want to nor be able to brainstorm for long, so do look forward to an imminent release which will be accompanied by detailed ordering information and instructions.

Comments

By Norman1066 at 2011-02-04 09:07:55 Reply
I understand entirely the problem with credit/debit card payments. We recently sold part of our company to the staff and the credit card companies insisted if they took payments that way they would initially hold onto the money for 40 days!

However I for one would not feel like going to my bank and telling some clerk that I was buying a device from your company.

Have you considered PayPal? Yes there is a fee but I for one would be happier to add the fee to the price than reveal my character to my bank.
By dreamloverlabs at 2011-02-04 12:58:09 Reply
Good point, should have mentioned that to protect your privacy, both on the remittance form and and in the future on the card statement, we will not be using "DreamLover Laboratories" name in full. So the bank staff and whoever gets a hold of your credit card statement will not know what you're purchasing. On the reason for payment you can write "electronic product".
By dreamloverlabs at 2011-02-04 13:02:40 Reply
PS: Paypal does not handle adult products.
By Norman1066 at 2011-02-04 15:07:50 Reply
OK, thanks. Great to hear we only have a couple more weeks to wait to hear the price and decide whether to order and I'm sure you will be relieved when the money starts coming in.
By subbyeff at 2011-02-04 14:55:54 Reply
Have you looked into alertpay or ccbill as they both handle adult products?
By 6KGuy at 2011-02-04 15:37:14 Reply
Can't you buy "adult" products through eBay, using paypal? How 'bout that avenue? Of course, eBay will have their hand out as well and drive costs up further.

By dreamloverlabs at 2011-02-04 17:22:38 Reply
We have explored all the interesting options mentioned above, and the result is the bank transfer for now. Do keep the suggestions coming, we may have overlooked some possibilities.

Still in discussion but credit card processing should be coming after the third production run or so (by then we should be able to wait 3 months on part of the sales).

Paypal+ebay: interesting loophole in the adult rules, thanks to the OP for the tip. We're looking into this.
By free4now at 2011-02-06 00:41:08 Reply
name misleading now as I am no longer free:)
I recently bought an adult product online and the site used 2checkout (2co.com) as their payment gateway. 2checkout accepted visa credit, visa debit (including visa gift card), and paypal.
By dreamloverlabs at 2011-02-06 17:21:02 Reply
Which site?
By free4now at 2011-02-07 08:36:53 Reply
I didn't put it down because I didn't want you to think my comment was a spam. The site I used it on was sambasweb.com
By dreamloverlabs at 2011-02-07 11:15:09 Reply
She has 2checkout (they rejected us) and CCBill (16%).
By Mknight at 2011-02-04 20:20:28 Reply
Odd the comment about PayPal. I use it to but my first CB from Kept for Her about 3 years ago, and that site still use it now.
By dreamloverlabs at 2011-02-06 05:09:28 Reply
It is possible that the rep at the risk department who decides on the account has some freedom in interpreting the "no adult" clause. Some may consider pornography to be "adult" but physical goods such as chastity devices not to be. However some may apply a more strict interpretation.

Furthermore just because one rep approved you, it does not mean another employee at some other point in time won't shut down your account. We were previously approved by 2checkout but they then changed their mind without warning. When this sort of thing happens and you have money in the account they can lock the funds for a very long time (with paypal it's 6 months, no appeal, plenty of net reports of this sort of thing happening).

Even though some shops out there may be getting away with it, we prefer not to use any service that doesn't clearly state their policies about adult tangible items. It's not worth the risk.

We did submit inquiries to paypal and 2checkout once again, just to see if anything changed from the last time we spoke with them and if we can get a written opinion on the matter.
By Bill Houston at 2011-02-06 07:39:55 Reply
I don't understand why an International Bank Transfer is the only way someone can purchase this adult product. It's funny because it sounds like the crazy emails I've received from Nigeria telling me if I wire transfer several hundred dollars, I'll get a million dollars in return. You may want to rethink this International Bank Transfer idea to avoid to appearance that this is a bogus product or a scam. I'd strongly suggest you relook at PayPal or explore CCBill. I've used PayPal and CCBill to purchase my CB and to register for adult videos.
By dreamloverlabs at 2011-02-06 13:56:56 Reply
If you go through ccbill you are not subject to the paypal TOS but to the ccbill TOS and they may have a deal with paypal that allows them to do certain things. CCBill quoted us 16% for processing so it's not an option, but we're exploring something of the same kind through a different processor.

Our ability to supply product will be extremely limited in the beginning so if there is any skepticism regarding us or the product, we invite people to wait to order until our next production run and by then they should be able to see that we've shipped product and read someone's online review.
By subbyeff at 2011-02-07 09:06:00 Reply
I know I bought a chastity belt from locked up love and they prominently take paypal www.lockeduplove.net

The others aside from ccbill that I found take adult products / websites are verotel, epoch, plugnpay, and adultmerchants.net

I'm sure if I spent longer I could find more for you.
By onehundredyears at 2011-02-07 12:48:15 Reply
Would you not avoid the payment complications if you decided to wholesale through various stores and websites like Mr S Leatherin San Francisco, (http://www.mr-s-leather.com/) and ExtremeREstraints, (http://www.extremerestraints.com/home.html. Adult toys (http://adulttoy.com/) and other sites already selling adult products?

Let them take their mark-up and worry about PayPal, vs Visa, vs whatever.

Just a thought.
By Bill Houston at 2011-02-08 11:07:44 Reply
If "Foreign Bank Transfer" is the only option at this point, I'm going to accept your suggestion to just wait until your company accepts credit card, CCMail or PayPal like all other adult sites. I find it difficult to believe that your company can't secure an agreement with one of these other commonly used companies (i.e., PayPal, CCMail, Visa, etc.) just because you have an adult product. And if a reason is you don't want to accept an 18% charge, simply pass that cost onto a potential buyer and let them make the decision whether they want to pay it or not.
By dreamloverlabs at 2011-02-08 14:57:12 Reply
Just got turned down by ccnow which is one of those adult and paypal supporting third parties.
By dreamloverlabs at 2011-02-09 08:48:56 Reply
Senior Specialist at 2Checkout.com Loss Prevention Unit says no deal.
By johnsteed at 2011-02-08 12:06:15 Reply
I have to admit I find the international transfer off-putting as well.
By allfullup at 2011-02-08 18:41:26 Reply
Sounds like you're in a spot of trouble.

What people are most concerned about is, "What recourse do I have if you don't deliver?" International wire transfer provides no possibility, especially not for a business that sounds to be in a spot of trouble.

I second the distributorship idea. How about a limited-time exclusive deal with, say, Tickleberry? They're no strangers to distributorships, seem to have a philosophy compatible with yours, are in the UK and have a longstanding sound reputation in the male chastity market. Perhaps you can work out mutually favorable terms with them including a partial or full advance to cover the costs of the first lot.

Surely you have a business address where you can receive old-fashioned checks or giros? Fellow electronics entrepreneur Nathan Seidle's story of getting his fledgling company's merchant account is educational and amusing: http://www.sparkfun.com/news/476
By dreamloverlabs at 2011-02-10 02:50:55 Reply
1. Distributors: We are not really planning on accepting distributors or wholesalers until pent up demand has been satisfied. High profile distributors wanting to carry the product have already contacted us. Names you all know. We explained to them we need to bootstrap first and that our supply may be intermittent in the beginning - they understood and agreed to wait, and stated they were happy to work with responsible manufacturers who were planning ahead on such issues... a distribution chain does affect costs so you're not in a bad position for buying direct, on the contrary.

2. "But I bought by CB3000 through xxx": CCNow and 2checkout among others specifically stated they cannot accept "this kind of product". Just because you bought an innocuous chastity device from an adult shop using such and such processor it doesn't mean they will allow a "genital zapping device" to be sold through their network. Please call them if you can't believe it. We need a merchant account. It will take some more shopping around, and time to do all the paperwork, potentially 2-3 months from the time we find someone who supports our product.

By LenStem at 2011-02-10 13:22:10 Reply
Is DHGATE an opiton? It is like ebay kind of www.dhgate.com There are some electrical device on there now?
By 6KGuy at 2011-02-10 14:36:21 Reply
So, how did the Paypal through eBay thing work out?
By dreamloverlabs at 2011-02-11 09:12:32 Reply
Paypal + adult and paypal + ebay + adult is only for US vendors to US customers.
By sub2mgi at 2011-03-01 08:19:58 Reply
Sorry to ask a basic question, but is a foreign remittance form the same as a Outgoing Wire Transfer (International)?

As for the risk, I suppose it depends on the cost.
By dreamloverlabs at 2011-03-08 02:18:20 Reply
Yes. They are one and the same thing.
We have escrow purchase available, see the new order page.
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